ironically

ironically, religious people are the very best evidence that we are just recently out of the trees.

Actually it is easy to see

"you just don't understand how I can know that and still subscribe to some of it" 
-Cann Hung 

Actually it is easy to see why, you are more concerned with your desire for these things to be true than you are concerned with honesty and the well being of your fellow humans.

rather stupid

I think the point is that if anyone you love goes to hell, you will suffer with them - even in heaven. So Yahweh doesn't have the power to send you to heaven if he sends anyone you love to hell. This problem renders your entire religion rather stupid.

"nothing" is just a placeholder

"who agrees with Krauss does not understand the meaning of nothing." 
-Will Pasieczny 

"nothing" is just a placeholder for the unknown abused by the dishonest.

qualified ?

"what makes you think you're qualified to tell me what I've experienced and not experienced? " 
-Terilynn Woods 

 sigh - the very reason humans need science is because as individuals our experiences are very easy to misunderstand. Your personal experiences are not evidence of anything except your own inability to understand them. And how dare you expect an Atheist to just take your word and then say they reject evidence - that's about as arrogant as a person could be. Oh, you saw god, so I should just believe you. Have you even thought about how stupid that is?

Your son was not born depraved.

" teaching my son to love others as he loves himself is the sickest thing in the world you can think of?" 
-Dennis Fisher 

Actually, teaching him that he was born depraved would be sicker than that - you didn't do that did you? Your son was not born depraved.

The problem with the "love" you are "teaching" is it is not real love - its weaponized love used to do things like destroy science and drive genocides.

Bible school bullshit

" From what you've said in other posts, I'M guessing that you probably grew up in a strict fundamentalist house and that all of this nonsense is your anger directed at all Christians." 
-Dennis Fisher 

 LMAO - no, when I was about 8 and someone invited me to Bible school, I thought I found the dumbest adult in the entire world, turns out the bullshit she was telling me is exactly spot on and actually in the Bible - no rational adult has any excuse to embrace the insanity in the bible.

Even if we ignore the direct torture and murder caused by the Bible daily, the Christian crusade against science is an appalling indictment that renders it in need of dismantling.

Christianity is the worst blight the human race has ever endured.

" And I and the Bible agree murder is never good news," 
-Barry Wannell 

This is called brainwashing. Brainwashing allows you to ignore the murder glorified in the Bible and ignore that fact that every time you use the word gospel - you yourself are glorifying murder.

murder is not good news.

"the only people brainwashed ae you people " -Barry Wannell

do you know the word gospel means good news?  In Christianity the term is used only for stories about the murder of Jesus.  News flash - murder is not good news.  You have been brainwashed into glorifying human sacrifice.

we don't understand it

"And there is the thing about Heaven, we don't understand it because it's not part of the physical world. " 
-Simone Anderson 

 actually its just a delusion. You might as well say we don't know why our neighbor thinks he is Napoleon Bonaparte. Yes we do know - he has a mental illness.

Christian motto

If there is such a thing as a Christian motto - one of the top ones would be "Love your neighbor" which is hypocritical in the face of the fact they expect to go to heaven where they will be playful and happy even with certain knowledge that their neighbors are burning in hell. Christianity is immoral.

5 types

You will find there are only five types of god claims:

1 - The absurd: "Trees are beautiful therefore god".

2 - Equivocation:  "God is love".

3 - Argument from ignorance: "Nobody knows the antecedent of the universe, therefore god."

4 - Special pleading: "The universe cannot be infinite therefore god must be infinite".

5 - Appeal to authority "God told me stuff to do".

All of them fail on the basis of their logical errors and thus show that the idea of god is illogical.

only developed nation

"which is it it's either true or not true" 

-Anthony Wheatley-Scurlock evolution is a fact. The USA is the only developed nation where a person can be suspicious of evolution and still be considered educated.

fuck Columbus

"The person who started evolution theory admitted that there was no physical evidence for his hypothesis on evolution" 
-Anthony Wheatley-Scurlock 

 first of all that is not true and second of all it wouldn't matter because now the evidence is overwhelming. You might as well say that Columbus admitted the world wasn't a globe. Well fuck Columbus if he was stupid enough to say that.

admirable, but messed up priorities

"I'm more interested in honest discussion along the lines of why we believe what we believe rather than putting anyone down for what they believe." 
-Christine Barrett Mitchell 

 admirable, but when it is fundamentally impossible for a person to have a good reason to believe what they believe - like a belief in Santa, or a flat Earth, then its hard to separate these things.

and so this is where we find religion - without evidence, rationality or any good sense and used as a foundation to bash peoples brains in - literally every day. So maybe your priorities are a little messed up?

no different than taking a hit of crack

" If someone has nothing to offer material wise but just wants to say a little prayer dont be a fucking asshole" -Heather Maule

Prayer is only for the person praying so they can feel better about not doing anything.  I think it's appropriate then to berate morons who pray rather than contribute.  Praying is no different than taking a hit of crack cocaine to escape reality.

it is always wrong

Amber Michelle Wiley join me in this pledge: it is always wrong to torture babies. why is this so difficult for you? If you were a decent person you would agree to this without hesitation.

There is no escape from this pain.

I am sorry to see you demonstrate that your entire life has been devoid of love, so permit me to educate you on the subject - when someone you love hurts, it hurts you as well. There is no escape from this pain. To escape such pain is to no longer love. It renders your idea of heaven impossible.

one logical conclusion

We can conclusively say that any claim for god has absolutely no supporting premises, and therefore is logically invalid, leaving only one logical conclusion - There is no god
-Josh Allin 

argument for Poseidon

"So how it came to be is not in question?" 
-Michael Rowles 

 the fact that the universe exists is simply an observation it is not an argument. Using this same logic a typhoon is an argument for Poseidon. To address your question though - the antecedent of the universe is unknown, but for certain it could not have been a logical fallacy which is all you have to offer.

its just a movie

 is atheism compatible with Santaism?" 
-Ádám Szőllősy - 

Its like this, Luke Skywalker is God, Darth Vader is Satan, and Atheists know its just a movie.

vital message

"(imagine the irony of us needing to iron out the wrinkles or our own language in order to try to communicate about another.)" William Vincent

imagine the irony of an omnipotent and omniscient god who had a vital message to send and yet could not find a reliable way to send it! In your world view Yahweh is literally too incompetent to lick a stamp and put it in a mailbox.

Christians believe crazy things about innocent children.

There are no "Christian children." There are children raised by Christian parents. Christians believe crazy things about innocent children.

Christian children

Christian children are born sinners that deserve eternal hell fire.  Normal children are only responsible for the things they actually do or do not do.

don't let that get in the way

//because responsible people don't just ignore stories about the senseless murder of millions of babies.// Well, you have to get past that. God ordered several genocides in the OT. Don't forget it, but don't let that get in the way of experiencing the love he has for you. He so loved you that he sent his only begotten son to die on a cross for you, to redeem you to himself.

Psalm 137:9

Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock! Psalm 137:9

Then I heard the LORD

Then I heard the LORD say..."Follow him through the city and kill everyone...Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." Ezekiel 9:5

'objective fact' for morals"

"But there is no 'objective fact' for morals" Ken BabyBoomer 

 there is, but its not very impressive. Humans have to be less murderous in a measurable sense when compared to their ability to procreate. If human morality cannot maintain at least a net positive birth rate, then it has utterly failed.

gods are security blankets

gods are security blankets to give comfort to theists who can't face reality on its full terms.

God claims are logical fallacie

all god claims are logical fallacies, so primarily its about learning logic and embracing critical thinking and then any god delusions you have will vanish.

what possible thing of interest could be left?

well its not too exciting of an argument. Logic precludes gods and thermodynamics precludes souls. Love itself is incompatible with heaven - so what possible thing of interest could be left?

wake up

"Does it make moral sense to endeavour to help one another minimise it or alleviate it altogether then?"
-Simon Joseph Lau 

 when you live under a delusion as powerful as Christianity, usually when you think you are helping you in fact are actually hurting people. We are simply here to ask you to wake up and let go of ignorant and childish things.

I prefer to be corrected

I really prefer to be corrected when I make a mistake, but I just realized I made a blunder and it was never corrected. I said that "Yahweh murdered every Egyptian baby for no reason at all." I guess the correction wouldn't have been much better - "Excuse me but no, Yahweh only murdered the first born Egyptian babies for no reason".

There is nothing more disgusting

"Funny how this must be wrong because the Bible contradicts itself in some parts" 
-Simon Joseph Lau 

 the bible in the form of Christianity twists the human capacity of love and turns it into a weapon to torture and murder people. There is nothing more disgusting, demented, or immoral than Christianity.

do you believe in the Big Bang theory

"do you believe in the Big Bang theory??" David Montgomery science is about evidence not beliefs, this is the kind of thing I am talking about. You don't even understand science enough to talk about it.

love your neighbor

"love your neighbor as yourself" 
-Joseph András Löbb 

this is hypocrisy for a Christian to say.

efficacy of science

"you're going to have to make sound arguments" Daniel Skillman the efficacy of science should have already convinced you before adolescence.

the only rational course of action

 " Do you know why atheists like to demand evidence for God?" - Raymond Harris 

because the only rational course of action is to believe things that have evidence for them.

facts are subjective

facts are subjective in that they are only a fact if during a conversation or specific frame of reference we agree they are facts. E.g. The Earth is a globe and that's a fact. Really, because its kind of fat in the middle and that's a fact. Really, because its fatter in the southern hemisphere than it is in the northern hemisphere so really its a pear shape? Really, what percentage of difference between diameters of a hemisphere qualify as pear shaped? Does "=" signify and equation or an assignment? In some languages your simple equation would be written "==" not "=", so yes subjective.

need a purpose?

If theists need a purpose that is outside of them, they don't need a God. Here's your purpose: Make the world better a better place for the next generation.
-David Jacquemotte

move every finger

Who designs a hand that says "move all fingers" and then require another command to stop the first command in the case you don't want to move every finger??

The perversion of love

"only because God is love." Kiko Enrique Hernandez this is an illogical statement. First of all, there is no evidence for any gods. If you think god is love you are just confusing yourself. Love is an emotional experience and feeling humans experience when they have a strong desire for something to be preserved or protected.

It is an aspect of the human psyche that religions pervert and use to manipulate their flock, so its not surprising you are confused about the issue.

Hopelessly alone

"answered is by far a better than my dependency of accepting that i am hopelessly alone" Juan Ramos if you could learn to love other humans, you wouldn't be alone.

This is the problem with Christianity, it perverts love such that innocent people like Juan Ramos get completely twisted around and end up drained of all love and understanding of love. there is no disease more insidious than Christian dogma.

suffering is a necessary component of love

"You cannot choose not to suffer. It is a part of life, pain and loss cause suffering. They are not choices..."

Exactly. The empathetic suffering caused by a loved one suffering is a necessary component of love and it cannot be removed from love - which is what heaven claims to do.

a god who would invent a hell.

John Crossan said: "I will not accept a heaven from a god who would invent a hell."

the name Yahweh

the name Yahweh takes away from the concept of god.  The more detail you heft on a god, the more clarity there is about a god concept - the more ridiculous and vulnerable the idea becomes.  Don't let theists hide behind the generic term god.

exploits the better nature of its flock

Christian dogma exploits the better nature of its flock and perverts it to spread the meme.

That will finally be their downfall.

This is the thing Atheists have to try to understand, for all their talk of love, theists are bewildered by love and completely fail to understand love.

That will finally be their downfall.

Practicing Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in heaven, but the concept of heaven is incompatible with the concept of love. So you can't really belong to a judeo-Christian religion if you understand love.

If Judeo-Christians can be made to understand love, they will reject the concept of heaven and that leaves little incentive to be a Judeo-Christian.

the job of scientists to destroy Darwin

" many scientists now are starting to question the all powerful Darwin" John Phillips it is the job of scientist to not just question Darwin but destroy his ideas if at all possible.  That is why science works.

It is also why Darwin is not relevant to modern evolutionary theory - worrying about Darwin is like worrying about George Washington and how he would consider modern laws - who cares?

Fittest is appropriate

Fittest is appropriate - it refers to environment.  In a loving environment, where the love of peers dominates more than natural predation, then "fittest" has nothing to do with fitness for survival, rather fittest to preserve the loving environment.

Anyone who understand love should then understand how the strength love brings to a society is still a survival of the fittest situation even when they value perceived weakness like blindness.

This is difficult for Christians to understand because their dogma is antithetical to love - Christian dogma seeks to destroy love.

Logic is not simply an aid for an argument.

Logic is not simply an aid for an argument.  If you can't construct a logic assertion, conception, or defense of something, then you literally have no rational grounds to say it is real.  Heaven suffers from this problem.

I think you are starting to realize that Heaven is incompatible with love.  That is a simple fact that you will not be able to escape.  How then can you presume to call it heaven if the one thing treasured most among humans is not compatible with it?

10 maps of NYC

If I gave you 10 maps of NYC taken over the past 100 years, could you arrange then chronologically?  I bet you could and this is the same basic method geneticists all over the world use and they always come out with the same tree based on that analysis.

cow DNA

your post about cows and whales has completely ignored my point that when anyone around the world analyzes cow DNA and whale DNA (they don't even have to know they are cows and whales), they will always arrange them into the same family tree. Like it or not that is irrefutable evidence they have a common ancestor - unless you can disprove DNA or something

Are paternity tests wrong?

different people all over the world arranging the DNA of all living things into the same tree? How could that even be possible if they didn't have a common ancestor? Paternity tests show it is only possible through common ancestry. Are paternity tests wrong?

no obligation

I don't like the idea that everything started from one cell." Dustin Bowcott science has no obligation to prove you with answer that you like.

There's a "get out" clause for anything in Christianity except not believing.

-Steve Ennever

That is not what "observational" means.

That is not actually what "observational" means.  This is a common misconception and lie that Ken Ham spreads.  If you understand mathematics, then you can understand why this is wrong.

If I tell you 2 + 2 = 4, did you "observe" me putting like things together to get a result?  No - but this is mathematical modeling and it counts as a scientific observation.  This is the whole purpose of math and the math shows evolution is correct.

infinity is a mathematical concept

The fact is infinity is a mathematical concept with application to modeling the real world. That is what you fail to understand about math. Without a real world mathematical model for different kinds of infinities - which WLC does not have, he is actually appealing to the only kind infinity there is every time he refers to infinity (or eternity). It's special pleading and I have simply cut out the BS that was used to obfuscate the fallacy.

transitive property of responsibility

The Bible promotes rape and glorifies human sacrifice - isn't there a transitive property here?  No sense of responsibility?  When a person gets so obese they can't get out of bed or fit through the door to their room - who is feeding them?  Doesn't that person feeding them have some responsibility in the situation?

Shame on you.

Max Mills lets start with this gem "We are talking about OT Jews" no, we are talking about the Bible which includes both the NT and the OT and has nothing at all to do with "Jews" - simply the text.

This attempt to redirect the conversation into a realm where you can try to formulate a deceptive defense is nothing at all honest. Firstly if you think the Jews were right, then you have no basis to accept the NT in the first place which they reject.

Secondly, the Christian faith is built on both the NT and the OT - together, they are inseparable.

In practical terms then your attempt to save these verses that condone rape is it self cherry picking. Only a child would even consider that bondage and total submission would not include sex. If you have no idea what sex is, then maybe your argument is sincere, but if you are familiar with sex your argument is completely dishonest.

"Im not cherry picking obscure points, I am telling you what the book says on this subuject." this is a factual lie. support it with scripture.

ok - your scripture - you have demonstrated that you have never read it so I have to explain the damn thing to you like all Christians. If you would read the Bible you would not be a Christian in the first place - stop being such a sucker and think for yourself for once in your life.

Women are property in the Bible through and through, if you weren't brainwashed into being a misogynist, it would be obvious to you in almost every passage.

For example, when you find your defense of rape - which you will never present, you will notice it only deals with compensating rape as if the damage is done to the owner, not the person being raped. The owner is either the father or the husband. You want specific scripture? Then provide your defense of rape which you still have not done - its there in that scripture - stop hiding from it.

Where else are women treated as property more specifically? Exodus 20 - the 10 commandments themselves - you shall not covet your neighbors property including slaves and his wife. HIS WIFE - nothing about coveting husbands, because the 10 commandments are not written for women who are thrown in with the other property.

Oh, where children are actually property of their parents? Maybe you remember the good guy Lot - the one Yahweh specifically saved because he was so moral. What does Lot do? He says, don't have sex with my guests, instead rape my virgin daughters. Obviously the daughters had no say in the matter - they were lots property either as children or as women - YOU DECIDE and the result is rape which is the idea of the guy Yahweh says is moral!

But obviously yes, parents are ordered to murder their unruly children many times in the Bible. The result of these commands is anything the child does that is not in agreement with the parents earns them the death penalty and thus affords them no rights outside whatever their parents apportion to them.

Your disgusting book. Shame on you. Learn to lead a decent and honest life and stop promoting this filth.

You don't have to understand it

 You don't have to arrive at some great theological realisation to be an Atheist, it's written in the term, it's an absence of belief in God. You don't have to understand something for your belief in it to be absent, in fact until you're taught something lacking an understanding of it is the default position.

-Shane Phillips

atheism is not a belief

"I think it is incorrect to say that atheism is not a belief." Abel Yashua Abel this is a misunderstanding of terms because you are coming from a biased position.  It is laborious and impractical to label everything you don't believe as a belief.

Do you believe the moon is made of green cheese?  Is that a belief?

Do you believe the moon is made of Swiss cheese?  Is that a belief?

Do you believe the moon is made of both green cheese and Swiss cheese?  Is that a belief?

Do you believe the moon has a core of green cheese and a crust of Swiss cheese?  Is that a belief?

Do you believe that Pluto is made out of butternut?  Is that a belief?

There are literally an infinite number of things you don't believe and atheists share your disbelief in almost all of them (they vastly outnumber the things you do believe) and also we disbelieve in one more - the thing about gods.

we have contradictory responses for every single other idea.

"atheists have contradictory responses for this simple question" Abel Yashua Abel the only thing atheists agree on is that there is no evidence for any gods - by definition then we have contradictory responses for every single other idea.

take some personal responsibility for yourself

The gruesome human sacrifice of Jesus is not good news or glorious.  If you deserve to go to hell, then take some personal responsibility for yourself, be an adult, and just go.  Stop trying to weasel out of your responsibilities and glorify the murder of someone so you don't have to face justice.

stop using beliefs to destroy the education system

I think atheists would not care what Christians believe if Christians would stop using their beliefs to destroy the education system, the government, and oh yeah to murder people.

black shoes.

"the Jehovah's witnesses teach that only 144000 people will enter heaven, which is absurd." Joseph András Löbb I have a friend who says leprechauns where green shoes - talk about absurd! Everyone knows leprechauns wear black shoes.

rape might be "wrong"

I guess that is the advantage of defending a logically incoherent text like the OT. You can grasp desperately as you have done to a vague reference and twist it to your desire - as if the OT has some strong condemnation of rape and completely ignore that oh so many other - stronger encouragements to rape, especially in the vain that women and children are property. OT rape might be "wrong" if it damages other people's property, but nothing in the OT suggests Fritzl is anything except a saint.

There is no evil

 If you wish to assert there is such thing as evil, you must demonstrate it.

However, for your demonstration to be effective you will have to show that something is not just bad, but factually evil and that would require it to be pure evil.

If you cannot demonstrate these things, the best you can do is argue that when YOU don't like something YOU call it evil, which has no meaning to anyone else.

And so - if you wish there to be evil in the world, either it has to come from your own desire for something to considered evil or you have to demonstrate something that is pure evil - that no person could ever deny it is evil and that nothing good can ever come from it.

The problem then is that even the worst thing can be used as a bad example and that fact negates the entire notion of evil - except in the case it is your desire to call something evil.

The heaven of the Bible is antithetical to love.

The heaven of the Bible is antithetical to love.  No loving person could exist in the Christian heaven, unless their ability to love was first removed from them.

The basis of morality

All morality is based on love, it has nothing to do with atheism or religion, its more about how much you understand the concept of love.

Love is objective in that one of its facets includes maintaining or increases the well-being of others, but it is subjective as well because it should be skewed toward the meek and identifying the meek is objective.

Woman goes crazy on airplane flying to Tampa

"Woman goes crazy on airplane flying to Tampa" or Woman Screaming 'God You're My Savior' is nuts.

I think the point is that in this day and age it is quite disturbing that a single person holds onto these childish notions; nay, that such a large segment of the population clings desperately to such bewildering nonsense, that this poor women never learned any rational coping techniques which culminated in a completely unnecessary and literal breakdown during a time of need.


Shame on anyone who propagates this madness called religion.

undocumented plumbing

Can you imagine a landlord or contractor working on a building in NYC and they stumble across an undocumented pipe?  Would it be useful to look at old plans of the city down in city hall or should they just cut the pipe and not worry about it?

This is the equivalent of using evolution to do research on other animals to benefit humans.  Those other animals are our ancestors and so they have clues to our undocumented plumbing.

Mortality is about love

Mortality is about nothing more than love and the people you love and because people love different things - its all subjective.

The major reasons why simple minded people want to believe in objective morality is they really don't care enough to try to figure out the nuance or they are simply too egotistical and want to control other people.

google this Video Debunked in 30 seconds: Christian Morality

It's all a lie

Love is my life? Something can happen to my ability to love? Most people have it even if they don't understand it. I am sure you have love in your life but you brainwashing interferes and uses your misunderstanding to manipulate you.

It's really very simple - if you love someone you will suffer when they suffer. If you don't suffer when they suffer, you do not love them.

As a result, decent, loving people can simply never go or remain in the Christian heaven. It's all a lie.

I urge you to continue to try to understand.

Christians never understand love." That's just an ignorant statement. Same if i said atheists can't be moral. Plain ignorant.
Do you wanna say love is what gives us value? Then i think you failed to understand love in terms of naturalism. Sure, you don't care, you just love, but it doesn't make it real. It's real for you in terms of feelings brought by real chemical reactions, but that's all it is, chemical reactions. Love doesn't exist intrinsically, on naturalism.
-anonymous

Sorry, no its a factual observation. By necessity, Christians believe in heaven, but heaven is in logical conflict with love. You can't possibly believe in heaven and also say you understand love. Google "Debunked in 30 seconds: Heaven".

Chemical reactions exist intrinsically in the natural world, and love is simply an emergent property, much as life itself is.

Good luck with this argument though and I urge you to continue to try to understand.

Hebrews are simply Canaanites 2.0

"History does teach us something about past civilizations." Marie Sieloff for example, we have learned that the Hebrews never lived apart from the Canaanites, there was never a war between the Hebrews and the Canaanites, the Hebrews are simply Canaanites 2.0.

Its not a bunch of history books.

"you are just reinforcing my point - if you want to base your views on "History Books" rather than your actual life experience... seems rather obtuse to me" Natalie CobraKai your actual life experience is at the whim of frail human senses and reasoning. Leading your life only by your own experience is myopic - that is why is it common to ask "did you see that"?

Science is simply a formal way for use to view things from multiple objective perspectives to rule out our own frailties - its not a bunch of history books.

Christians rarely understand love.

You have failed to understand love. If you have a baby for example, if you love the baby, you don't care if its a boy or a girl. If you love the baby you don't care if it's gay or straight. If you love the baby you don't care if it's the result of complex chemical reactions or if it has an immortal soul - you just love the baby and nothing will change that.

Christians rarely understand love - they can only understand love in proportion to the amount of their own doctrine they reject.

Every argument for a god is a logical fallacy.

It depends on the argument being made, but there is no valid argument for god. For example William Lane Craig argues everything has a beginning, except for god, his god is the result of special pleading - a logical fallacy.

Most people believe in god because they don't understand what could come before the big bang, and so they assert god must have created the big bang, that god is an argument from ignorance - another logical fallacy.

There simply is no logically sound argument for any god. Every single one is a logical fallacy.

Faith is a process

"Faith itself is not a process." Simon Joseph Lau Faith is a process.  When you discover you do not have evidence for some belief - like Santa Clause, you will naturally dismiss it because it cannot benefit you and it will cause you derision from society (an adult that believes in Santa?  WTF?).

So when you find such a belief you have to decide if it is precious enough to you that you will face any possible derision and just hold onto it despite their being no evidence.

Faith doesn't just occur in a vacuum.

gods that have a cure

If your god talks to you, then there is medication that can cure the problem. I'm not too impressed by gods that have a cure.

Mohamed rode a flying horse

Mohamed rode a flying horse into heaven and talked to god.  He didn't see Jesus there, so obviously Jesus was lying.  Surprise to find out this way I know, the virgin birth thing was so convincing.

So far, no evidence for Jesus.

Turns out virtually everything about The Bible is a lie, but you know, what the heck lets just buy into this one without any evidence.

Sure the Christians might be right, but if they are why are they hiding their evidence?  In science, secret evidence is not evidence.  The time to believe something is when the evidence has been shown.  So far, no evidence for Jesus.

"Bad" is incaulcated into religion

Fortunately people can drop the nonsense part of religion, just turn it into a club, and in that way extract the good stuff and leave the bad stuff behind.

Unfortunately, the bad stuff is primarily built into the religious aspect of religions and that can't be extracted while keeping it a religion.